… that lots of ancient tribal people are trapped somewhere in this earth yet undiscovered – does not necessarily conflict with the modern science…
I will start with a typical conversation with a science student about Ya’juj and Ma’juj. This can also serve as tl;dr for lazy readers.
| Islam is not a rational religion. | Hmm, why do you say that? |
| Google has mapped the world. Where are Ya’juj and Ma’juj? | No, Google didn’t map the world. They are in cave some where in the far east. |
| Cave? seriously? | There are caves that have rivers, jungles, sunshine, oxygen all within the caves. You know, like a resort package. |
| How can you have tons of people inside a cave? | There is a cave system that is 400 sq/km long. That is bigger than the city of Dhaka that holds 9 million people. Bigger than Singapore. |
| Why can’t they break the barrier? Metal can’t last that long. | The barrier was created using iron + copper which gives much better durability and resistance to shocks. They are trapped with very early primitive tools. Archaeology research show that iron/copper combination can last thousands of year. |
| Okay smart guy, why can’t we find them with all our modern science and technologies. | Caves are discovered by locals or by exploring, not using technologies… There has been a new cave discovered 2018 in Canada. I’m sure we were very technologically advanced nation before 2018. |
| So you are saying there could be more huge caves that we don’t know about? | Yes, and no reputable geologist would claim that we have discovered all the caves. Scientists claim that caves are very difficult to find. You need to locate the hidden entrance. |
| Where do you suppose the cave is? | Perhaps somewhere in the far eastern part of the world. Unlike the West, most of the East hasn’t been explored due to country restrictions and regulations. There are lots of mountains, jungles and uninhabited lands there. |
| Why don’t we hear their sound? | We also don’t hear 100 tribes that live in the middle of jungles in complete isolation. How about people living inside a sealed cave. |
| Okay tell me more. | Read on… |
There has been a lot of talks about Ya’juj and Ma’juj with regards to whether or not they still exist in our current time. Are they still trapped behind the barrier that Dhul Qarnain created thousands of years ago?
In my humble research, based on reading the Qur’an verses and Hadeeths regarding the topic, it seems to suggest that yes, Ya’juj and Ma’juj are still trapped and will be released toward the End of Time; more precisely, during the second coming of Isa’ (Jesus) peace be upon him. I will not discuss those evidence in this post but suffice to say that this is the standard and mainstream belief among Sunni Muslims.
I personally don’t have a problem with other views in this matter, because these texts aren’t 100% dictating that the same Ya’juj and Ma’juj people are still alive today. There is a little room for different interpretations. So minority groups of contemporary scholars holds few different views. But that discussion is for different post.
Rather in this post I want to propose that the standard mainstream position – that lots of ancient tribal people are trapped somewhere in this earth yet undiscovered – does not necessarily conflict with the modern science. It is something that intellect minds of twenty first century can fathom, given that the mind is open to suggestions that mankind hasn’t explored every piece of the Earth and science isn’t always accurate in the field of archaeology and geology.
Although I spent countless hours, this is just a short independent research on the topic to present some arguments, so interested person can do further research.
What is a cave?
Before I can present my logic, you need to know about caves. Lots of caves.
You probably think all caves are small, dark and scary. In that case, this post might be a revelation to you.
There are over 50,000 caves in the world. Each of them is amazing with unique characteristics. But in this post I will only focus on one of them – Son Doong Cave – which is one of the largest cave located in Vietnam. This cave is massive and majestic. It has a river system, a jungle, plenty of oxygen and sunshine all within the cave! There are two gaps on the top of the caves that brings the sunshine and rain. However the height of those gaps from the ground is more then 40 stories long so there is no way one can climb up to get out. Yet this cave was only discovered on 1991 by a local and explored in 2009. This cave doesn’t need any word to describe, rather few images may help you to appreciate it.
Most of these pictures take from various sites. I have listed the references in the bottom. Please visit them to fully explore the cave.
Every cave has at least one entrance. Some of them are very small and very difficult to locate while others are big. Son Doong Cave has a magnificent entrance. However, once the opening is blocked, you literally trap everything inside, nothing can get out of it. But the reason I choose to describe this particular cave is because, nothing needs to get out in order to survive.
In ancient time, specially for tribes where civilization hasn’t reached (as described in the Qur’an about Ya’juj and Ma’juj), cave like this would be like a village/territory. They would spend most of the time inside with very little reason to leave. Ya’juj and Ma’juj didn’t leave their place often. We can infer to it because when Dhul Qarnain was building the barrier, he did not encounter them. It must have taken days if not weeks to complete the barrier based on the description in the Qur’an.
The barrier
Qur’an gives very explicit descriptive details on how the barrier was made. Sheets of irons was placed between two mountain walls, then fire was blown into them until those were made to glow, and then molten copper/metal was poured over it. [Quran 18:96]. Qur’an also mentioned that the barrier wasn’t penetrable as to indicate it was strong and won’t be easily ruined.
Research has shown that Iron and copper has extended durability and better resistance to earth shocks. (See the references below) up-to 6,000 years. There are different opinion on when the barrier was created, but non of the opinion dates back 4,000 years. More likely between 2000 – 3000 years. We have plenty of ancient metal artifacts from that period which remain in excellent condition. Specially if the barrier was very thick as indicated in the Qur’an (“sheets of iron”) then it would take very long time to completely weaken or degraded, in order to break through.
The barrier, regardless of its size, must have been covered by trees, earths, rocks and other obstacles in the last thousands of years. Therefore it would make extremely difficult to locate. And if you can’t find the entrance of a cave, you simply won’t be able to find the cave at all.
Technologies have nothing to do
There are caves all over the world and new ones are being discovered time to time. For example there has been a new cave discovery in Canada last year in 2018! Most of these caves, if not all, are discovered by the locals. Not by satellite or Google driving round in the mountains or jungles. So technology and advancements don’t play much role in the caves.
Far east of the world
We know there is a cave in 400 sq/km long called Mammoth Cave in Kentucky USA. How big is that you ask? I have placed a blue dot on the map below. Chances are you won’t able to see it. Look for the red arrow. This dot represents the city of Dhaka which is only about 310 sq/km long and home to about 9 million people! How many people do you think we can cramp in a cave that is 400 sq/km long? Especially considering these are primitive uncivilized barbaric tribes who don’t need school, office, banks, parks, malls or football fields?
There are many restricted areas in the far east part of the world, such as China, North Korea and Russia. A lot of these territories have lands, mountains and forests which fully haven’t been explored. If we were to place the same dot in those area, it won’t even make a scratch. There is an indication in both Qur’an and Sunnah that Ya’juj and Ma’juj are from the farthest Eastern part of the world. This could be the one of the reason why we still haven’t found the cave.
Isolated primitive tribes exist
There are more than 100 tribes living around the world in complete isolation. They are living their simple primitive lives and they do not care to get out and mix with us, even though the door to the outside is open. They don’t have any problem being stuck in one particular place.
We know that Ya’juj and Ma’juj it are very primitive and barbaric tribes. Qur’an also made a point to indicate that they were far away and cut off from the civilizations. So studying how these tribal people live in complete isolation would help us understand how Ya’juj and Ma’juj might be able to survive in isolation for such a long time.
We certainly made lots of advancements in understanding our planet that we inhabit, but not quite everything.
So much more to discover
Unfortunately, It is very common perception in our current time that we have discovered every inch of the Earth with our science and technology. And nothing can stay hidden from us. However, no reputable archaeologists or geologists would ever make such a claim. If they did, they won’t be constantly researching and exploring different parts of the world and discovering ruins of huge civilization dating 9000 years old in Gabekli Tepe, and entire new 8th continental in the parts of Europe in the recent years. We certainly made lots of advancements in understanding our planet that we inhabit, but not quite everything.
The purpose of writing this post isn’t to convince anyone about caves or existence of Ya’juj & Ma’juj in our time, rather to provide a prospective from the modern context about the possibility of a such reality. However I do find it little distressing when it is claimed that a sound modern intellect cannot entertain the idea of such narrative. That, in my opinion, is not a true statement. Sure, this is not your typical fun fact that is easy for mind to nod but certainly not beyond the possibility even within the realm of modern science.
Although I tried to keep the post focused only on secular knowledge, but at least at the end I must mention that if Allah Wills, He can do anything. Hiding a large tribe right front of our modern satellite should not be difficult for Him.
Let me know what you think. I have been doing lots research on Islamic Science about End of Time recently and have a lot to share. In next the post or so I want to discuss more about Ya’juj Ma’juj description; this is where things get more interesting about them. Are they full human like us, or they have some abnormalities? Both Qur’an and Hadeeths certainly allude to something strange about them!
Some related links
- http://www.sondoongcave.org
- https://oxalis.com.vn/diving-expedition-son-doong-cave/
- https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/5406419
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_uninhabited_regions
- https://www.sciencealert.com/there-s-an-8th-continent-buried-between-europe-and-africa
- https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/100-uncontacted-tribes-amazon-rainforest-peru-indonesia-jarawa-a8245651.html
** To English experts, please ignore typos and grammars. That’s all **
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